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8/05/2010 8:42 pm  #1


NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Howdy from Texas,
Very Hot here right now, no way to run cars at the track, 103 deg inside when I walked in at 6 pm tonight.

Mark from NZ was very generous to send me two Brand New Mura set-ups from the 1970's, these have the long mags of yesteryear and it will be interesting.  I will post pic's in a bit.
http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab123/64THANDFINE/SNT/nz001.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab123/64THANDFINE/SNT/nz002.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab123/64THANDFINE/SNT/nz003.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab123/64THANDFINE/SNT/nz004.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab123/64THANDFINE/SNT/nz006.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab123/64THANDFINE/SNT/nz008.jpg


I have two NC-20 arms from the early 70's and one old open arm from the same era, if the comm holds up.

The purpose is to build these motors as they would have been in the 70's and see what numbers we get.

I will use bf II's and mura light and maybe med springs.

May have to remove te ears or sinks to work the endbells, they are extremely tight!

If anyone has an old arm to add, please contact me. 

Possibilty of zapping the mags also.

The 90g F/C will be the test car.

IMO the Black krinkle can and black and purple endbells were some of the coolest Mura ever made.

To be contimued,
Timmy!

Last edited by TIMMY! (8/05/2010 9:06 pm)


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
 

8/06/2010 3:57 am  #2


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

I would leave the ears on one if possiable, just to see if  the extra cooling would allow more consistant times on quick back to back runs. It will be great to see them in running order and what they will do compaired to modern equipment

 

8/06/2010 11:12 pm  #3


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Robert,
Thanks so much for the offer,because I would feel liable, I would want to know what kind of motor, lol. 
You could trust me not to do any work to the motor, but blowing something up by accident or just being in my possesion when it decided to let go, would weigh heavy on my head.

It will be a few weeks until the heat dies down enough to run the test.

Let me know,
Timmy!

Last edited by TIMMY! (8/06/2010 11:13 pm)


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

8/07/2010 11:18 pm  #4


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

This will be too COOL!!!
No hurry though, the track won't be able to hold it until mid September.
I will run it in my Track owners AA/FC chassis.

Looking forward to the experience!,
Timmy!


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

8/08/2010 5:33 pm  #5


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Hey Timmy,

Posting this info and pictures for a friend. Doug is a racer from back in the good ol days and has recently got back into racing, this time Drag Racing. He runs several old Muras of the 1980's vintage which he worked over and rewound back then. I built him one of my carbon fiber chassis for a new Corvette body and he installed one of his Muras. The motor has a S-16 arm with a hot rewind, geared 4.5 to 1 with 1-1/16" x .500 tires. Weighs in at 94g. Has only a few passes on it so far with the best time of .9147. With a little tuning we're both sure it will run in the mid .8's. He's also working on some newer rewinds since the older arms are getting pretty thin on the com and can't withstand the higher RPM's anymore. Good luck with your motor program, you'll enjoy it I'm sure.
Bill

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weZB2bdbxoY/TF2avb4xMnI/AAAAAAAAAns/bxJpz-PCoLE/s512/vintage_mura_power2%5B1%5D.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weZB2bdbxoY/TF2a01wtSMI/AAAAAAAAAnw/pn0Vzf0lMj0/s512/vintage_mura_power1%5B1%5D.jpg

 

8/08/2010 5:54 pm  #6


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

I am interested in the rewinds and their success.
It would be cool to rewind some old arms!
Thx for sharing!

Timmy


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

8/08/2010 6:07 pm  #7


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

I'll keep you posted on Doug's progress. The coms on the older arms just arn't strong enough to last with todays magnets and high revs. Start with newer arms and experiment with different winds. The older cans were very well made, good starting point.

Bill

 

8/18/2010 3:45 pm  #8


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Hi Bill, have you tried the sponge tyres on your car yet? or machined some magnesium chassis rails? if so have you cracked the .9's?

I have been assembling parts for my "back to the Future" rail.  I have:
- bought some 1/8"x1/8"x1/2" neos from emovendo which fit perfectly in a RAm 857/ Pittman 85A motor.
- bought some .040" carbon fibre sheet to build the main rails,
- bought some modern micro fastenings from McMaster to hold it together.
- bought a 64pitch pinion and spur gear (both with 1/8" holes) to fit the old equipment
- Bought some JDS 17" 10 spoke fronts
- retreadded a set of Russkit #725 hubs with sponge

Its all in the my head in design phase currently, but initial thoughts are that the mainrails will pass inside the motor endplates - refer the old magwinder designs by Gene Hustings,
http://bracket500.com/links/history/GeneHusting%20Dec65e%5B1%5D.pdf
but with  detatchable wheelie bars.

I intend to meet the (spartan) R&C '60s rules for "Unlimited Division"
http://bracket500.com/links/history/R&C%20rules%201966d%5B1%5D.pdf
namely:
Max Length 10" and Max tyre size 1-1/2"x1/2"

I will be working on it only after Ive completed DVan's two projects which are in progress:
60's dragster restoration; 40 years in the making

Mark


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
 

8/18/2010 4:51 pm  #9


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

The man DVAN,  has got you busier than a one armed wallpaper hanger in a wind storm better get the new bride to work with you  looks like a challangeing project should run good if it can hold together

 

8/18/2010 5:58 pm  #10


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Hello,
I have lined up the types of tests on the NZ/USA mtr challenge, just waiting until the temps cool down so times will be accurate on the runs.
Test will include:
2 nc-20 arms. 1970-74
1 c-can open arm, early to mid 70's.
1 mystery Hot Wind arm, looks like an 80's rewind.
1 or 2 newer 12 arms
1 or 2 new 20 arms.

Cooool Weather Come ON Down!



Timmy!

Last edited by TIMMY! (8/18/2010 6:10 pm)


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

8/18/2010 6:17 pm  #11


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Hey Mark, I have the Big Sponge's mounted, cut and trued. Replaced the old threaded axle with a nice piece of 1/8" drill rod and assembled it all in the stock RussKit rear section. I didn't have time to redesign the back half of the dragster but I will need to add some wheelie bars. These tires are so soft I bet they will wrinkle when I hit it. I'll give it a go this Saturday night and report in afterwards, keep your fingers crossed. I'm also experimenting with an old 36D motor, installed a Dyna Charger arm and a couple of rare earth magnet. Don't know what type of magnets but their strong ones. And get this, its in a 64 Dodge , thought you might like that.
On a modern note, building a Neo Hawk for my new CF sidewinder chassis. A couple of weeks ago I tried it out with a friends motor that I had assembled for him and after getting the tires to stick on the 3rd run it put down an .826 ET. I was happy and so was Charlie. Have a few more projects going on but regular machine work keeps getting in the way . I'll let you know how everything shakes down, in the mean time keep working on your rail. Magwinder's coming up!!!   

Bill

 

8/18/2010 10:18 pm  #12


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

david, TIMMY & Bill, I would so love to come visit & talk plenty of 60s BS with you fellas and grudge race.  Meantime Im really thankful DVan gives us this place to play.  DV we really appreciate what you're doing.

If we dont have a baby before hand, we are planning on going to the 60th US Nats in 4 years, so a round about road trip might be the thing to do, & maybe visit Willy & Marty too.

david, if Catherine drove a slot car like our real car, (what am I saying? she does! its either full on or off!) she would be unbeatable. 

Take care fellas
M


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
 

10/12/2010 10:52 pm  #13


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

The NZ/USA motor challenge took off tonight!
I knew the endbells on the motors Mark sent me were tight fits to the point of haveing to be sanded, filed and ground on a little bit.  I am a capable dremel user and used my thin disc on the side to fly cut the surface of the inside can part of the endbell, when the black dye got lighter I moved on to another section, then needle filed the rough edges, also I removed the paint from the inside of the can including behind the magnets.  I came out with a very nice fit, after that the magnets were re-installed and the gap came out to .525 with the clips, I added super glue to all areas around the mags for extra insurance after checking the alignment with a .525 gap tool.  The alignment was almost perfect too close to realign it.  I was amazed! 
Left the elephant ear heat sinks off this motor and got a great hood alignment also, no diamond honing needed.  Used goldust brushes with mura springs, took 3 pr to get 1 good pr, 1 pack had two of the wrongs ones, lol.
broke it in and put it in my R&D F/C, poor old thing is tired, lol.

I thought back to 1991 when I started drag racing slots my first class car at the 1992 winternats was a parma stamped steel F/C with a Mura 20 and a lumina body.  It ran 1.00's and TQ was maybe .960 at about 60 mph.  It weighed 100g im sure.
My F/C is 90 grams.
13/56 was the starting gear, 1st runs were 1.026, 1.024, 1.026 at 49.3 to 49.9 mph, nice consistency!
changed the gear to 13/52, runs were 1.024, 1.014, 1.000, 1.007, 1.000 at a best of 52.35 mph
As you will see in my photo album none of these arms has over 30 - 35 degrees timing.
Also in my album you can view my 20 and 1/2 year old KITTY KAT, her name is blue, she has been with me through all my drag tracks, she wonders where the heck I go and why I come home so late, lol.

I am sure this motor will run on the .9's tomorrow, I forgot to say the mags are not full strength and part 2 of this deal will be after they are zapped and then I will put some quads in one motor also and see what that does.

Here is the album, All the arms I will test are there, the 1st one, nc-20 is not in yet, the one with the blue dye, nc-20 is what I am running right now, I m not for sure but it may be bent a little.  The red dye arm is the mstery arm, not sure if it is an untagged 20 or 15 or maybe someone rewound it and had it balanced?
I am feeling old, but I know a few of you older guys may have seen the type of c-can open arm, if you know who made it please share?

http://s856.photobucket.com/albums/ab123/64THANDFINE/NZUSA/

Race On,
Timmy!

Last edited by TIMMY! (10/12/2010 11:02 pm)


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

10/12/2010 11:49 pm  #14


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

That is great news Timmy!

It neat to se an old motor fire up again - very satisfying indeed.
You have done better than me, as I mentioned in chat room on Tuesday Afternoon (your Monday Nite) I killed a MURA endbell and herdware last weekend

I wonder if the mystery arm is a Champion thats been dyed?

ANyway good on ya mate, I like to hear bits are back on track.  I hope she runs a .9x

see ya

Mark


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
 

10/13/2010 5:04 am  #15


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

I think you maybe Right NZ Mark, I had a couble of champion group 20 motors and the blue shaft tubing seems familiar. thanks Timmy for mentioning the old PARMA Funny car chassis ,my first bought drag chassis and all I could think off is that it was a Whomp on steroids! weight 100 grams if you didn't put a motor, axle,Ect. on it but at the time it made a good bracket car, and I think it still would today,I would sure hate to have one fly off the track,chassis would survive but what ever it hit would hurt I wish I looked as good as your cat does for her age,normally they get over weight(like me) must be why she still kickin' the runs you made prove two things #1 they were fast in their era ,but todays motors are faster #2  the older I get the faster I was!( at least the cars seemed that way)a legend in my own mind

Last edited by davidRevans (10/13/2010 5:11 am)

 

10/14/2010 9:12 pm  #16


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

I appears to me that slot car motors are a lot like Good Lasagna after sitting overnight, it tastes better.
Build slot cars, run them, let them sit, settle and cure, then run them again and they magically get faster, lol.

I left the 4.00 final ratio in the car and ran it again tonight, It turned a .986, .992, .986, .993 @ a best of 53 mph.
I changed form 13/52 to 13/48 to see if it helped, nope too much to pull, .992, .993 at 52+.
Back to the 13/52, I tightened the lash a little this time and ran .975, .983, .972, .970 at 53+.
13/50 could be the Charm!

NOT BAD FOR A 37 YR OLD ARM AND A 31+ SET-UP.

I would darn sure bracket race it and probably will, lol.

I can't do this now, but this has inspired me to build a funny car out of piano wire, with brass and pillow blocks for the mtr box, a spring steel guide plate, plastic guide, a set of .890's narrowed, 10/39 brass and steel gears, pre 1980 F/C model body, small front wheels for the wheelie bars and model fronts. That is about as close to 1979 as I can get!
Then run the motors in this car.

Stay Tuned,
Timmy!

PS.  The old long mags are not full strength, but they still have quite a thump!

Last edited by TIMMY! (10/14/2010 9:13 pm)


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

10/14/2010 10:26 pm  #17


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

a-w-e-s-o-m-e Timmy!  must be like a red wine eh? good on ya.

you almost need a drop arm

I reckon those Muars have another 30years in them!

Good luck from downunder

Mark

Maybe, Wellington & Wichita Falls should be sister cities?


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
 

10/15/2010 4:21 am  #18


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Interesting to see what effect a brass an wire chassis has, or if some one had one of the old Parma Funny Car chassis rusting around. not a bad motor for it's time,an they where as fast as I remebered.

 

11/23/2010 12:20 am  #19


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TO RUN IN TURKEY NAT'S THIS WEEKEND!
I was at the track tonight and did not get to enjoy the chat.
Prepping cars for the Turkey Nats at ROMS in FT Worth this weekend.
Was looking for a backup motor in case my bracket buster INT. 15 failed me.
Then it hit me, The Heck with that motor it can be backup to the NZ/USA 35+ year old NCC-20 arm and Mura Bad Boy black krinkle set-up!!!
Since the last time I ran the motor I had not done a thing to it, but I did put new tires on the R&D F/C.
When the motor was putn together no shunt wire was added to keep it like the 70's off the wall test.
Made the decision to shunt wire it to keep the springs from failing at a bad time maybe.  Also put new GoldDust brushes in it, but did not turn the arm.
Water break in for 5 seconds and popped it in the car with a 13/50 gear, I had forgotten in my earlier post that I said 13/50 should be the charm and it is I guess.
Between the new tires, brushes and shunts it picked up to an impressive .937 so far @ 57.5 MPH!
Shake and Bake Baby!

The really cool part of this relates to the Mind Games at the starrting line.  I'm not much of a trash Talker, but Telling some of these younger racers (anyone under 30, lol) that the arm and set-up is older than they are seems to boggle their mind a little, LOL.

Thanks Again NZ MARK!!!

Timmy!
ps I will report results from ROMS Saturday.


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

11/23/2010 4:59 am  #20


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

TIMMY are you running one of the MURA motors with the Elephant ear heat sinks? curious to see if heat sinks would make a diffrence in back to back runs or make a motor more consistant in warmer conditions? ,and the mind games is interesting , show a youngster a 36D and they usally red light thinking that BIG motor is going to fly! and they look at the dial-in and can't crasp the fact it is going to leave first!

 

11/23/2010 9:58 am  #21


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Timmy & David, us dinosaurs will rule the earth again 

Forget neo, double hemi winds - good old "back to basic" Mura/Champion 20's are making a comeback thanks to Timmy's efforts

David, I agree a Mabuchi/Cox/whatever 36D program could do the trick.  I have a soft spot for 26Ds byt too many die when springs melt into the post.  I replaced the endbell on one and installed alum spring cups with shunts and have it in a sidewinder wheelstander.  It did round after round on the weekend.  Only thing you do have to readjust your startline timing because they rollout so slowly.  went from around .00x (while running S16D & g20s)  to .10s on the first few runs!

Mark


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
 

11/23/2010 12:57 pm  #22


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Thanks David and Mark,
Old mabuchi 36ds are a cool motor and very consitent!
David I have taken into consideration the elephant ears and the second motor will have them on there when I get it ready to run!
I do know this, the 2nd and 3rd runs last night on the NZ motor were ,951's at 56.7 each, that is what I like to see before a big race!

Race On,
Timmy!


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

11/23/2010 9:23 pm  #23


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Update!
NZ/USA goes .909 @ 60 mph!!! .923 back up!
Should be in the .8's at ROMS this weekend!

Stay Tuned or Keep Tuning,
Timmy!


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

11/24/2010 12:16 am  #24


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

Timmy, thats awesome!

Are they the original 35year old Arcos single whitedot magnets?  Have you had them zapped?
Cant wait to hear the results.

I have a few original Green Giant motors still.

Great stuff.

Mark


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
 

11/26/2010 6:54 pm  #25


Re: NZ/USA OLD SCHOOL MOTOR TEST AND CHALLENGE!

WOW!
NZ went .8982 @ 60 mph!!! 
River Oaks Motor Speedway

Timmy!

Last edited by TIMMY! (11/26/2010 6:54 pm)


"It ain't about Class, It's about FASSST!!!
     Thread Starter
 

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